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July 04, 2007

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That is all so, but it might be good to note that al-Ghazali lived in 1100, not 750. It wasn't predetermined that Islam should have gone in his irrationalist direction. Muslims are well aware of the significance of his victory in the war of ideas - they call it "the closing of the gates of ijtihad" (this word means something like "interpretation according to reason"). There were answers to al-Ghazali, e.g. that of Ibn Rushd (Averroes), a thinker characteristically ignored in Islam but taken very seriously in medieval Europe. It's only a fatwa that locked Islam into that dead end. So there's a way out if they want it.

The gates of itjihad closed well after the Sunni/Shia split, yet we see very much the same kind of attitude to Koran, Hadith and Sunnah from both sides. The details are small. Indeed, even Sufism contains much that is of concern, and the Deobandi sect (the Taliban are Deobandi, not Wahhabi) is descended from Subcontinental Sufi thinking. That Deobandism and Wahhabism are functionally indistinguishable speaks to a characteristic of the core texts that all stripes of Muslim will return to time and again, even as they continue to jettison their free thinkers, non-literalists and secularists.

What is key is that Islam, unlike other great religions, is based on the sole, complete, literal word of the last prophet, ideally in its original language. Also Islam is dedicated to the spread of Islam by any means necessary, and considers itself to be in a default state of war with the rest of the world. That this is borne by the words of the Prophet and by his actions makes a different interpretation difficult if not impossible, and vulnerable.

What is also key is that a subset of the prophets word was clearly described by him to be the complete, final and perfect message of God to humanity.

It is possible to deviate from this literalist line, as indeed has been done to some extent by Sufi thinkers, Muatzilla practitioners and more open minded thinkers like Averroes. Indeed, sects like the Druze and Bahaii may have sprung from Islam but are not far too dissimilar from it to be considered parts of the faith.

The issue however, is not whether it is, theoretically possible to deviate from the literalist interpretation of Islam, nor even whether there have been successful attempts to do so. Proof by contradiction is easy here. The real questions concern the relative difficulty of such a shift, how representative such behavior is, historically, and how well supported it is in the core texts and beliefs of the religion that all sects and groups, throughout history have returned to.

Here it pays to consider that Buddhism has certainly spawned dogmatic sects, hedonistic ones and indeed violent ones. But these are the exception, while asceticism, pacifism and meditation are the norm to which Buddhists of all stripes, Mahayana, Theravada or Tantra return to time and again. The Buddha was quite clear on such things, even if creative interpreters may have thought otherwise.

Christianity has certainly had brushes with theocracy but returns time and again to a seperation of church and state. Even the Holy Roman Empire in its heyday was thus. The New Testament supports this, while theocracy is on shaky ground. Any political impetus for Christian theocracy has thus had a use-by date.

The question then is what can be done to cause the CORE of the Muslim world to abandon what has been a very effective self-correcting core belief since Medina ?

And how much hope is there that this may be done by pretending that the more dangerous and unpleasant aspects of Islam do not exist, and are not associated with the enfranchised core of believers ? How much hope is there of thus influencing what is effectively a very powerful piece of self-correcting code by attempting to appease those who are least enfranchised ?

Or is a more difficult, robust approach in order ?

"Proof by contradiction", or anyway, counterexample, is good. Mu'tazilite rational interpretation of Islam existed for centuries, therefore it's possible. I agree that rational theology is harder for Islam than for Christianity, and the separation of church and state harder still. But we come back to the issues we discussed earlier: if the basic texts of Islam advocate violence, and if 300,000 Australian Muslims have done very little about it, then some sort of practical non-literalism must be in operation. A phenomenon we'd like to understand and not disturb.

Proof by contradiction may serve to mislead probabilistic inference. MOST swans are white even when you finally see a black one.

The questions, as I said, is not whether there are exceptions, but why they always seem to fail, and to what default form the mainstream always reverts to.

Meanwhile, war is but politics by other means, and it is the politics of Islam that concerns me, not just a single military method of theirs. Violence is not the only problem. Jihad, in all its forms is the problem.

The duty to jihad does not require all Muslims, at all times to violently attack every infidel they come across, nor even to make war on all lands of Dar Al Harb at the same time. But it does require them to always strive to grow Dar al Islam, by any means necessary, to test and intimidate infidels, to make war when and where it is appropriate, and to strike terror into the heart of the enemy, when and where it is appropriate. It also requires them to support those that do make violent jihad.
On the other hand, if an infidel appears to be strong, it is appropriate to enact a hudna (treaty of convenience) with him until such time as subjugation may be possible.

300,000 Ausralian Muslims as a political force have done of great job of silencing criticism of Islam in Victoria, electing conspiracy theory mongering, terror supporting extremists as their community leaders and establishing mainstream acceptance for their behabiour, protesting loudly and effectively against Australian involvement in counter jihad operations and taking a stand against Australian security services.

Most of those of the 300,000 who have not participated actively in such matters have contributed passively by allowing such things to be done in their name, adding their numbers to what is a powerful political bloc.

If they see it politically expedient to support Islamic Supremacism through violence overseas, while pursuing it politically at home, electing unapologetically terror supporting leaders and teaching hatered to their children this is cause for concern not celebration.

They do support violence. They support terror against US troops, Israel, India, Thiland and other states, and often our own troops overseas. They display "proud of our troops emblems with "allah akbar" beneath it on Muslim Village.

Perhaps now is not the time for violent jihad in Australia. That can come later, as in france or Thailand when numbers have grown.

They show themselves capable of selectivity in their violence, and the ability to divide and concquer their enemies even as we pat them on the back for not killing us straight away.

This is NOT good news.

As for the possiblity of violence here, the ideological roots of violence against Australia are stronger than some may think.
First priority is placed on recapture of lost parts of Dar al Islam. This is why Israel, Kashmir and also Spain and southern Thailand are under threat.
This is why some of us found it quite ominous when Hilaly pronounced that Australia was Muslim before white settlement. Nonsense though it was historically, it actually meant that an Imam has declared Australia to be a former part of Dar al Islam, thus a priority for reconquest.

Finally, here is Daniel Pipes on the embrace of non-violent jihad, titled, appropriately enough "When Conservatives Argue About Islam":

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/4745

Pipes' article - very good as usual - raises an interesting question with its mass of acronyms of Muslim organisations and its comparison of Islamism with the French Communist Party. It's always good to know if your enemy is really split or if it's all a front. The French Communist Party was all hard-line Stalinist, but Western observers were wrong for years in thinking the Sino-Soviet split was a deception operation. So are there good analyses of splits in Islam that distinguish the true from the false? Obviously Sunni vs Shia is genuine, even though unfortunately their policies vis a vis the West agree. The Indonesian police vs JI also appears to be genuine? Any expertise on these matters?

Jim

I am not quite sure what you mean by:

observers were wrong for years in thinking the Sino-Soviet split was a deception operation. So are there good analyses of splits in Islam that distinguish the true from the false? Obviously Sunni vs Shia is genuine, even though unfortunately their policies vis a vis the West agree. The Indonesian police vs JI also appears to be genuine? Any expertise on these matters?

Are you attempting to figure out which creedal branch of Islam is most true? If so, what criteria would you suggest should be used to ascertain this? For example, is it true to acknowledged and authoritative Islamic texts (be it the Qur'an or the Hadiths), true to the earliest Islamic Imams' teachings, a mixture of both, etc? This would appear to be a fruitless exercise - sort of like trying to determine whether Catholic, Protestant or Eastern Orthodox is the more accurate, true reflection of Christianity. And we both know the answer to that one don't we? ;) In any case, being able to determine truth of the claims/statements made by our Muslim contemporaries on Islam is difficult due to the doctrines of taqqiya and abrogation. Another problem with Islam and reason: Reason seeks for Truth, taqqiya seeks to hide it and abrogation seeks to paper over inconsistencies.

Alternatively are you questioning whether the distinctions we perceive in Islam are in fact genuine? For example, are you questioning the split that we perceive exists between the Indonesian police (army?) and J.I is ipso facto congruous to reality? This may be the easier alternative to answer requiring less doctrinal and historic knowledge, but fraught with trying to pick taqqiya.


The Sunni/Shia split is far less complete than some may think, at least in terms of coordinated strategy against the West.

Islamist Shia (twelver sect, mostly) Iran appears to be

1. Supporting extremist Islamist Sunni (Muslim Brotherhood offshoot) HAMAS (this is not an "appears to be" but a given)

2. Providing refuge to a number of al Qaeda seniors, including Osama's son Sa'ad Bin Laden

http://analysis.threatswatch.org/2006/08/tehran-deploys-bin-ladens-son/

3. Arming Sunni Deobandi Taliban in Afghanistan

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/06/mil-070627-rferl01.htm

4. Working with Sunni jihadist Palestinian groups in Lebanon, such as FATAH al Islam

5. Many Sunnis worldwide idolize Hezbollah following last year's Summer War. Our own Sheikh Hilaly marched in support of them, and met with Hezbollah officials on his trip to Lebanon. Australian Sunni Lebanese have been at pains to explain that they support Hezbollah, even though their more secular cousins back home may not (Anyone else get the feeling that the Lebanese Sunni community sent us their all their nutcases?)

And lest we forget the fatwa on Salman Rushdie, pronounced by the Shiite Ayatollah Knhomeini, and taken up by the suddenly militant mass of Sunni Deobandi Pakistanis in the UK.

It would be nice, as Jim Franklin noted above, if the Mu'tazili school of Islamic theology could be revived. The school did seek to ground Islamic thought in reason and its hermeneutics were useful in offering, where necessary, metaphorical rather than literal interpretations to resolve contradictions in the scriptures. It also had a useful system for weighing the evidence before accepting a tradition as authentic.

Unfortunately, its rivals won and the Mu'tazilis faded from the scene over a thousand years ago. Today, with a particularly pernicious fundamentalism on the rise, the chances of a similar Islamic theology gaining much traction appear remote.

Jim raised the issue of the separation of Church and state. Some Muslims may argue that the Millet system in the Ottoman Empire provides an appropriate model for their communities within Western societies; that current arrangements give them fewer rights than Christians and Jews enjoyed within the Caliphate. Why shouldn’t sharia law apply to their communities? Why shouldn’t the mosque determine marriage and inheritance matters, rather than the state?

In any case, Muslims are bound to reject secularism for a more fundamental reason – secularism in the West has been accompanied by a decline in religious belief. Once the core of Christendom, Europe is now a post-Christian society. It won’t escape their attention that the term ‘secularism’ was coined by an agnostic.

Sorry to create confusion over what I meant by "true split". I meant one that might have opposing parties at each other's throats (as opposed to them merely pretending). As Moose says, the Sunni-Shia split is genuine, but they can suddenly be matey again if you give them Salman Rushdie or an Israeli war. Which just confirms what I was saying before, that you have to consider the many consequences of "strong" action when you're considering taking it. Attack always unites the enemy.

About the decay of the Mu'tazili and the alleged constant victory of extremism in Islam: could we remember t hat modern jihadism is a creation of our own lifetimes? Let's recall the 1930s: 1400 years since Mohammed' trip to Medina, almost all the Islamic world under the political control of London, Paris and The Hague; those empires on their knees from disarmament, depression and the rise of fascism, and what was the result? Peace, close enough, from Morocco to the Moluccas.

Jim, modern Jihadism (at least that inspired by Sayyid Qutb) may have been invented within the lifetimes of the older amongst us. However, is the theology of this jihad unique? Certainly, modern communications and mobility have enabled it to spread faster and further than ever before, but is, say, Osama Bin Laden’s Jihad theology significantly different from that of, say, Muhammed Ahmad, the alleged ‘Mahdi’ with whom General Gordon battled in 19th century Sudan?

Was not the peace you refer to in the 1930s a product, inter alia, of the eventual British victory in the Sudan?

Jim

You have said that:

that you have to consider the many consequences of "strong" action when you're considering taking it. Attack always unites the enemy.

I agree that this needs to be considered. However, there are two questions that need to be answered.


  1. If the benefit of not attacking is some semblance of fissure within our enemy, what is our payoff, for how long and how persistent will this payoff continue and what will we be paying to obtain this benefit? I think you may have raised this question in the past.

  2. And, if we are trying to divide our enemy, what is our end-game? Divide as a strategy has historically been accompanied by the objective of conquer. And if the end-game is "conquer" then in what guise should this conquest take place, if at all?


I guess I am not sure where your idea of fissions in Islam is leading?

The reference to the Mahdi is good. He was out of the blue and his ideology was indeed like Osama's, and the right plan was to react to that in the same way as to Osama. The Brits did a good job persisting despite the initial disaster at Khartoum. After that, it was all over until Sayyid Qutb. Other Western-Islamic conflict in the period 1880-1980 was more like the farce portrayed memorably by Sid James and the team in Carry On Up the Khyber.

As an end-game model I prefer the Cold War containment strategy to "conquest". Islam has a longer record of survival than Leninism, but also a long record of variation.

Jim, do you really think the current jihad theology just came out of the blue? Isn’t it more likely that like a disease in remission, it was always there, out of sight, in the background, festering quietly in the mosques and madrasas, just waiting for the right circumstances to burst forth into the world?

As for containment, that only works if we have a credible deterrent. During the Cold War, our communist enemies didn’t want to die. But if our enemy doesn’t care about death, what is our deterrent? We could possibly deter him by visiting terrible retribution on his nearest and dearest, but a Hama Rules response is off the table. We seek to fight wars with fastidious delicacy.

We’re not prepared to do obvious things to promote our safety if they are seen to be discriminatory; in the name of human rights we tolerate the intolerant. We’re facing something primal, barbaric, a force that interprets our restraint as weakness, inviting attack. How should we respond?

If Islamism’s principal methods of warfare are asymmetrical, what meaning and content could we invest in any containment policy? Moreover, in the case of the Soviet Union, containment “worked” because Communism, depending on secular validation, was perceived by the Soviet elite as a failure by the 1980’s. By contrast, Islamism, whatever its political, economic and social failures, is not judged by any secular measure. The “end game” may need our adoption of asymmetrical methods which seek to subvert the rule of Islamist regimes, e.g. that of Iran, rather than seek conventional military confrontation.

Sure, jihadism was "in remission" and always had the potential to break out. Also the potential to stay in remission. One possible content of containment strategy relevant to present circumstances is assistance (with methods and technology) to the forces out there who are confronting jihadism, like the Pakistan army (good work there) and the Indonesian police. We could worry that as they're Muslims too it's dangerous to help them, but it would be better to go with their track record.

Jim, you said:

One possible content of containment strategy relevant to present circumstances is assistance...to the forces out there who are confronting jihadism, like the Pakistan army (good work there) and the Indonesian police.

If the Pakistani army is confronting the jihadis, why are they abandoning whole provinces of Pakistan to them? Or is this part of the strategy of containment that you envisage? As the recent "Red Mosque" episode demonstrates "containment" - or keeping jihadis penned up - does not work. "Penned up" is not a strategy position that they are willing to accept. Empirical facts.

The Indonesians prima facie appear to be doing a better job. But then again, I know very little about what they are doing except for some high-profile arrests. That does not in and of itself demonstrate real commitment to fighting jihadism.

Happy (and hope) to be proven wrong on this one Jim. What I would like to see you demonstrate is that either of these nations have a well-defined and executed strategy for "confronting" jihadism.

The contrast between the situation in Indonesia and in the southern Philippines shows that the Indonesian strategy is already well-executed.

The problem in Pakistan is surely that no-one is firmly in control, so there are different factions jockeying for power - some of them pro-jihadi and some of them anti. So the army (or one faction) is storming the Red Mosque while Intelligence (or one faction) is protecting Abdul Qadeer Khan; then there's the President vs the Supreme Court, etc. All the more reason why a containment strategy should recognise the splits in the Muslim world.

Lounge Lizard:
I find it encouraging that this subject is receiving due attention. In particular The Australian printed several articles this week on this topic including one about a Muslin woman in Sudan taken into slavery by Arabs. Greg Sheridan is quite bold on the subject, as is Paul Sheehan in the Herald. Other papers are now daring to say the name that in recent PC times could not be said. There have been several fine articles in Quadrant recently.

As the former professor at a leading American university, I think your observation that Islam rejects the necessity of reason (and therefore science), while Christianity embraces it, is THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL POINT. It helps explain all other observations, and therefore must be the cornerstone of any effort to resolve the impass between Western civilisation and Islam if it is to have any hope of success.

I think we agree on this. There remains the minor problem of what to do about it. The scary thing is that all children in Islamic madrassas, from Yemen to Sydney, are being continously brainwashed in Koranic fundalmentalism that, by definition, incorporates the rejection of reason. (There may well be moderate Islamists but there is no moderate Islam.) I believe that Saudi Arabia is funding Islamic schools and university chairs in Australia.

We remain frustrated in trying to get Australian school teachers to reject post-modernism and relativism. How can we get teachers in Islamic schools (around the world) to teach the necessity of reason? The two institutions that eventually brought down Soviet communism were the Catholic Church and the United States of America. I am afraid that they are once again our only hope.

Another reason why containment doesn't work.

Containing Iran, Gaza or Waziristan "over there" could make conceptual sense, provided we ignore the lack of an effective deterrent due to a cult of death, as discussed above. We would also need to ignore the lack of targets for retaliation due to covert and non-state action, and new tools of the trade such as suitcase size nukes, small dirty nukes, home made ricin and the permeability of Western borders, physical and electronic.

But this is not the Cold War, and it is not enough to contain any particular nation state. Can we contain the banlieus of France, Londonistan in England or South-West Sydney for that matter? The home front is however the most critical one in the current war.

Immigration, birth rates, activism taking advantage of political correctness, challenges to free speech, outright intimidation, murder and mass terror are home front problems, with the imposition of full Sharia law as the final objective. First informally in "no-go" enclaves, as is already the case in France and the UK. .Disdain for the official law is expressed by the youth, but also taught by their religious leaders: after all, any man-made law is an abomination, particularly one created by infidels.
This is an environment where two sets of laws apply informally. While technically still illegal, Muslim domestic violence, child brides, bigamy, and incitement to violence are overlooked. The next step gives this de facto situation some official standing. The examples are many. Police in Australia have been instructed to be mindful of cultural differences when investigating domestic violence in Muslim homes. A court in Germany ruled that domestic violence is not grounds for divorce for a Muslim couple A French government official met a no-go area representative outside of the area itself, recognising that kaffirs were not welcome there.

Meanwhile, criticism of the process is discouraged or banned through a combination of intimidation, propaganda and legislation. The VCAT laws in Victoria are a good case in point here. While the "Catch the Fire" ministries case may have been a "draw" it is actually a victory for the bad guys: anyone daring to criticise Islam in Victoria still risks costly and painful court proceedings, even if they are more confident that they may not lose outright and go to jail. Recent EU legislation has effectively made "Islamophobia" a crime across the Union. This even as individual states such as the UK narrowly avoided passing such legislation of their own.


The legitimisation of Sharia continues
through officially sanctioned Sharia family courts, which have been attempted in Canada, and demanded in Southern Thailand.
Official sharia enclaves thus
arise.

Finally, Sharia is officially applied to all nominal Muslims (identified as such in official documents) irrespective of their desire to be subject to it, such as in Malaysia and half of Nigeria (all too recently an almost entirely Christian land). In the latter case, Sharia applies to all matters of life, and presents death as a possible punishment. Finally, Sharia becomes the only law, applied to Muslim and Dhimmi alike.

How do we contain this process?

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